Item discussion

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Fallan
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Item discussion

Post by Fallan » December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm

I thought I’d start a new topic with item suggestions. The items I have in mind right now are focused on Water elementals and Hydras. Something I really like with the current items having active/passive abilities is that they reflect the abilities of the boss/creature dropping them. Later on I can try to come up with ideas for some more common items, but right now I focused on a few items with abilities which I think would be cool to see.

Drops from Hydras:

1. Unique Leather for physical dps with some decent stats, and perhaps a chance to deal extra damage on hit? Also an Active ability: Makes 1-2 mirror images, which could either be illusions (like the Blademaster) or splitting the hero into 2 slightly nerfed clones, where the clones should deal slightly more damage in total than the hero would by itself. Is that possible to achieve? It could be called “Cloak of Abundance” for example. Right now Combat leathers is probably the best one for Leather physical dps(?), and it would be nice with a unique one for them with a cool ability to avoid some damage or deal extra damage, depending on the version you prefer.

Next ability I have in mind would be featuring the poison cloud (or Corrosive Breath), and I thought it’d be cool to make it part of a set along with an item dropping from the Sea elementals (number 3 in the list). According to me the current set (from Vault) ‘Free Will’ is mainly for physical dps and (at least) the rings are quite decent for casters, but I wouldn’t use it on Spell Breaker/Defender. So I thought it would be nice with a tanking set:

2. Unique Trinket that could be called “Noxious Gland” with spell/magic resistance. Passive ability (could be active too with increased effect): “Poison cloud”, affecting units around the hero, with a similar animation as Corrosive Breath from the Elder Hydra. It should feature similar debuffs as the Corrosive/Acidic Breath with damage over time and reduced armor or reduced attack rate.
When you combine this trinket with the ‘Liquid Core’ from Sea elementals, you could get an additional tanking stat (like armor or healthpoints). But most importantly you would get an active ability which immobilizes nearby enemies for a few seconds, giving tanks a bit of CC too. If you prefer the individual effects from the 2 items to be active ones, the active ability of the set should then feature all the effects (immobilization, dmg over time and reduced attack rate etc). The set name I’m not sure about, but so far I’m thinking about something related to mixing toxic gas and chilly mist, or at least that the paralyzing (immobilizing) effect is mentioned in the description…ideas?


Drops from Water Elementals (uniques from the bigger sea elementals while common items could drop from the smaller reef elementals too):

3. Unique Trinket that could be called “Liquid Core”, with 5-10 % evasion and Passive ability (could be active too with increased effect) that reduces attack rate of enemies surrounding the hero by ~5%. The animation could either be similar to the one water elementals currently have, or a more blueish version of the mist that’s present near the Twilight jewel. For the text I have something like this in mind: “The essence of the sea elemental is contained within this trinket, infusing the wearer with its powers to influence the state of matter. It causes you to partially liquefy, making you harder to hit, and engulfs your surroundings in a chilly mist.” Forms a set together with “Noxious Gland” dropped from Hydras, see above.

I think it would be nice to add some of those abilities (evasion/reduced attack rate and maybe splash damage too) to the sea elementals to make them a bit tougher.

Next item would be a replacement for the old version of The Unburdened (which used to have 60% mana regen). Right now I think casters could use an additional high-end mana regen item, but maybe there’s already plans to add one to the Naga Priestess or Hydras?

4. Unique Bracers with 30-60% mana regen. Passive ability: Your heals returns ~10% of the hp healed in mana to affected units and/or Your magical attacks (auto-attacks) deal ~10-15% splash damage. Adding both passive abilities would make it useful for most casters. If you don’t like the idea with 2 passive abilities, an alternative could be to let the Water elementals drop the bracers with mana regen and splash damage, while the item for healers (with mana return on heals) could be dropped from Naga Priestess perhaps? In that case the splash damage bracers could have reduced stats and be changed to a rare drop, to limit the amount of uniques from Water elementals to 1 (the previous item Liquid Core).

5. Common Bracers with 2str + 2agi or something like that, as an alternative before you get Witherwight or similar.

6. More common items to fill up, not sure what’s missing right now though.


I can try to add/improve the stats/names of the items, but first I’d like some feedback to see what's worth developing.

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Fledermaus
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Re: Item discussion

Post by Fledermaus » January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm

Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
1. Unique Leather for physical dps with some decent stats, and perhaps a chance to deal extra damage on hit? Also an Active ability: Makes 1-2 mirror images, which could either be illusions (like the Blademaster) or splitting the hero into 2 slightly nerfed clones, where the clones should deal slightly more damage in total than the hero would by itself. Is that possible to achieve? It could be called “Cloak of Abundance” for example. Right now Combat leathers is probably the best one for Leather physical dps(?), and it would be nice with a unique one for them with a cool ability to avoid some damage or deal extra damage, depending on the version you prefer.
Not really sold on the mirror image idea. I get that you're going for the hydras splitting when they die but it doesn't quite feel the same to me. I've also played around a lot with mirror image and couldn't manage to get the clones to not appear blue - which I think would look quite weird.
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
Next ability I have in mind would be featuring the poison cloud (or Corrosive Breath), and I thought it’d be cool to make it part of a set along with an item dropping from the Sea elementals (number 3 in the list). According to me the current set (from Vault) ‘Free Will’ is mainly for physical dps and (at least) the rings are quite decent for casters, but I wouldn’t use it on Spell Breaker/Defender. So I thought it would be nice with a tanking set:
I already have plans for 2 complete sets from the Hydras (lightning and poison). I like the idea of a set with parts from multiple different enemies though.
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
2. Unique Trinket that could be called “Noxious Gland” with spell/magic resistance. Passive ability (could be active too with increased effect): “Poison cloud”, affecting units around the hero, with a similar animation as Corrosive Breath from the Elder Hydra. It should feature similar debuffs as the Corrosive/Acidic Breath with damage over time and reduced armor or reduced attack rate.
When you combine this trinket with the ‘Liquid Core’ from Sea elementals, you could get an additional tanking stat (like armor or healthpoints). But most importantly you would get an active ability which immobilizes nearby enemies for a few seconds, giving tanks a bit of CC too. If you prefer the individual effects from the 2 items to be active ones, the active ability of the set should then feature all the effects (immobilization, dmg over time and reduced attack rate etc). The set name I’m not sure about, but so far I’m thinking about something related to mixing toxic gas and chilly mist, or at least that the paralyzing (immobilizing) effect is mentioned in the description…ideas?
I already have plans for at least 1 item that'll have the poison cloud from the Elder Hydra so another one might be too many?
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
3. Unique Trinket that could be called “Liquid Core”, with 5-10 % evasion and Passive ability (could be active too with increased effect) that reduces attack rate of enemies surrounding the hero by ~5%. The animation could either be similar to the one water elementals currently have, or a more blueish version of the mist that’s present near the Twilight jewel. For the text I have something like this in mind: “The essence of the sea elemental is contained within this trinket, infusing the wearer with its powers to influence the state of matter. It causes you to partially liquefy, making you harder to hit, and engulfs your surroundings in a chilly mist.” Forms a set together with “Noxious Gland” dropped from Hydras, see above.

I think it would be nice to add some of those abilities (evasion/reduced attack rate and maybe splash damage too) to the sea elementals to make them a bit tougher.
This one seems alright - although the aura sounds like the Deeplord Revenant's aura.
And as you say, would probably need to boost the power of the Sea Elementals to make these feel better/justify decent drops from them. This is probably not a bad thing though, they're kinda boring/easy in the vault anyway. Could also make the Elemental trap have a chance to spawn Sea Elementals as well.
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
4. Unique Bracers with 30-60% mana regen. Passive ability: Your heals returns ~10% of the hp healed in mana to affected units and/or Your magical attacks (auto-attacks) deal ~10-15% splash damage. Adding both passive abilities would make it useful for most casters. If you don’t like the idea with 2 passive abilities, an alternative could be to let the Water elementals drop the bracers with mana regen and splash damage, while the item for healers (with mana return on heals) could be dropped from Naga Priestess perhaps? In that case the splash damage bracers could have reduced stats and be changed to a rare drop, to limit the amount of uniques from Water elementals to 1 (the previous item Liquid Core).
I really like this one.
Would probably be enough just with the heal also restoring mana.
I think you're right with the 2 separate items - splash damage for Sea Elementals and heals restoring mana could be from Hydro, Naga or Chests.
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
5. Common Bracers with 2str + 2agi or something like that, as an alternative before you get Witherwight or similar.
Seems fine. Did you have any particular creeps in mind? Maybe Elementals or Murlocks?
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
I can try to add/improve the stats/names of the items, but first I’d like some feedback to see what's worth developing.
Names/Descriptions are what I'd appreciate the most for items (even if you just have an idea with a name/description I can usually come up with some cool stats/abilities for it if you haven't thought that out).

Fallan
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Re: Item discussion

Post by Fallan » January 8th, 2018, 5:56 pm

Fledermaus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
1. Unique Leather for physical dps with some decent stats, and perhaps a chance to deal extra damage on hit? Also an Active ability: Makes 1-2 mirror images, which could either be illusions (like the Blademaster) or splitting the hero into 2 slightly nerfed clones, where the clones should deal slightly more damage in total than the hero would by itself. Is that possible to achieve? It could be called “Cloak of Abundance” for example. Right now Combat leathers is probably the best one for Leather physical dps(?), and it would be nice with a unique one for them with a cool ability to avoid some damage or deal extra damage, depending on the version you prefer.
Not really sold on the mirror image idea. I get that you're going for the hydras splitting when they die but it doesn't quite feel the same to me. I've also played around a lot with mirror image and couldn't manage to get the clones to not appear blue - which I think would look quite weird.
Yeah I can agree that the mirror image might be a bit farfetched for the hydras, it's just an ability I thought would be funny to have. Perhaps there might be a Blademaster encounter in the future where it would seem more appropriate with such an item... ;)
Fledermaus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
Next ability I have in mind would be featuring the poison cloud (or Corrosive Breath), and I thought it’d be cool to make it part of a set along with an item dropping from the Sea elementals (number 3 in the list). According to me the current set (from Vault) ‘Free Will’ is mainly for physical dps and (at least) the rings are quite decent for casters, but I wouldn’t use it on Spell Breaker/Defender. So I thought it would be nice with a tanking set:
I already have plans for 2 complete sets from the Hydras (lightning and poison). I like the idea of a set with parts from multiple different enemies though.
Ok awesome! I'll see if I can think of some other combinations, but 3 sets (Free Will, Lightning, Poison) might be enough for now?
Fledermaus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
2. Unique Trinket that could be called “Noxious Gland” with spell/magic resistance. Passive ability (could be active too with increased effect): “Poison cloud”, affecting units around the hero, with a similar animation as Corrosive Breath from the Elder Hydra. It should feature similar debuffs as the Corrosive/Acidic Breath with damage over time and reduced armor or reduced attack rate.
When you combine this trinket with the ‘Liquid Core’ from Sea elementals, you could get an additional tanking stat (like armor or healthpoints). But most importantly you would get an active ability which immobilizes nearby enemies for a few seconds, giving tanks a bit of CC too. If you prefer the individual effects from the 2 items to be active ones, the active ability of the set should then feature all the effects (immobilization, dmg over time and reduced attack rate etc). The set name I’m not sure about, but so far I’m thinking about something related to mixing toxic gas and chilly mist, or at least that the paralyzing (immobilizing) effect is mentioned in the description…ideas?
I already have plans for at least 1 item that'll have the poison cloud from the Elder Hydra so another one might be too many?
Yes I agree, 1 is enough, as long as the poison cloud is featured somewhere I'm happy :)
Fledermaus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
3. Unique Trinket that could be called “Liquid Core”, with 5-10 % evasion and Passive ability (could be active too with increased effect) that reduces attack rate of enemies surrounding the hero by ~5%. The animation could either be similar to the one water elementals currently have, or a more blueish version of the mist that’s present near the Twilight jewel. For the text I have something like this in mind: “The essence of the sea elemental is contained within this trinket, infusing the wearer with its powers to influence the state of matter. It causes you to partially liquefy, making you harder to hit, and engulfs your surroundings in a chilly mist.” Forms a set together with “Noxious Gland” dropped from Hydras, see above.

I think it would be nice to add some of those abilities (evasion/reduced attack rate and maybe splash damage too) to the sea elementals to make them a bit tougher.
This one seems alright - although the aura sounds like the Deeplord Revenant's aura.
And as you say, would probably need to boost the power of the Sea Elementals to make these feel better/justify decent drops from them. This is probably not a bad thing though, they're kinda boring/easy in the vault anyway. Could also make the Elemental trap have a chance to spawn Sea Elementals as well.
The aura might not be as important if there wont be a set together with the poison cloud anyway, it was mainly to make it a mixture of elements (chilly mist/poison) to motivate the paralyzing effect. If you like parts of the idea there could be some alternatives, for example to:
  • Make it a unique item with 10% Evasion (should be a fair amount if it wont be a part of a set) and make the reduced attack rating mist into an Active ability with increased effect (like 20 %?) for a few seconds, and a cooldown of a minute or more. However there's plenty of spells/items (including Defenders ult and Bastion of the Deep) to reduce attack rating, so maybe it could do something else, for example it could disarm the enemies instead.
  • Make it a rare item with 5-10% Evasion without any ability.
Fledermaus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
4. Unique Bracers with 30-60% mana regen. Passive ability: Your heals returns ~10% of the hp healed in mana to affected units and/or Your magical attacks (auto-attacks) deal ~10-15% splash damage. Adding both passive abilities would make it useful for most casters. If you don’t like the idea with 2 passive abilities, an alternative could be to let the Water elementals drop the bracers with mana regen and splash damage, while the item for healers (with mana return on heals) could be dropped from Naga Priestess perhaps? In that case the splash damage bracers could have reduced stats and be changed to a rare drop, to limit the amount of uniques from Water elementals to 1 (the previous item Liquid Core).
I really like this one.
Would probably be enough just with the heal also restoring mana.
I think you're right with the 2 separate items - splash damage for Sea Elementals and heals restoring mana could be from Hydro, Naga or Chests.
Yes I agree it would be more appropriate to make the mana restore bracers drop from a caster with spells than from the sea elementals. My vote goes for the Naga Priestess, and it would be cool to see her have a healing spell (or does she already?). To be honest I never completed the map back in the days, so until the time has come on version 2.0 I might have to see if I can get a group together who'd be willing to level up some heroes and encounter the Naga Priestess on one of the older versions. That could also give some inspiration on names and texts for potential items from her, if it's needed ;)
Fledermaus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
5. Common Bracers with 2str + 2agi or something like that, as an alternative before you get Witherwight or similar.
Seems fine. Did you have any particular creeps in mind? Maybe Elementals or Murlocks?
My plan with both number 5 and 6 in the list was to have some common drops from Water elementals other than the unique/rare, whichever it will be.
Fledermaus wrote:
January 6th, 2018, 11:49 pm
Fallan wrote:
December 29th, 2017, 12:13 pm
I can try to add/improve the stats/names of the items, but first I’d like some feedback to see what's worth developing.
Names/Descriptions are what I'd appreciate the most for items (even if you just have an idea with a name/description I can usually come up with some cool stats/abilities for it if you haven't thought that out).
I'll see if I can think of something, but usually for me it's easier to have an item/ability in mind and use that as inspiration.

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